A rush transcript of “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” airing on Sunday, August 3, 2025 on ABC Information is under. This copy will not be in its remaining type, could also be up to date and should include minor transcription errors. For earlier present transcripts, go to the “This Week” transcript archive.
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GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC “THIS WEEK” ANCHOR: The president fires the highest official answerable for the roles report as a result of he did not like what he noticed. THIS WEEK begins proper now.
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JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, why did you hearth the top of the Bureau of Labor Statistics?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As a result of I believe her numbers have been flawed.
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Trump removes a Labor Division official overseeing month-to-month jobs stories, baselessly claiming she cooked the books, as his new tariff regime takes form.
TRUMP: Properly, they should pay a good price.
STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, Jon Karl stories on the financial fallout. Plus, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers.
Deepening disaster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we’re speaking a couple of matter of minutes and hours to stave off additional money owed now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Humanitarian teams sound the alarm on an imminent famine, as Trump’s Mideast envoy visits Gaza. Ian Pannell is on the scene. Plus, Medical doctors With out Borders U.S. CEO Avril Benoît.
Redistricting battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the movement prevails.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republicans in Texas shifting to redraw the congressional map. We’ll converse with former Legal professional Basic Eric Holder about how Democrats plan to battle again.
Plus, political evaluation from Chris Christie and Donna Brazile.
And —
GARRETT GRAFF, AUTHOR, “THE DEVIL REACHED TOWARDS THE SKY” AND HISTORIAN: In these tales, you come to know now nuclear weapons should not like some other weapon within the human arsenal.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The top of the eightieth anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bomb, Martha Raddatz speaks with historian Garrett Graff on his new oral historical past, “The Satan Reached Towards the Sky.”
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ANNOUNCER: From ABC Information, it is THIS WEEK. Right here now, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning and welcome to THIS WEEK.
Suppressing statisticians is a time-honored device for leaders attempting to solidify their energy and stifle respectable. It’s occurred all through historical past. Most just lately in Venezuela and Turkey, the place presidents punished officers and economists who don’t tow the get together line.
It has not been a part of the American custom. However late Friday, it occurred right here. President Trump fired the top of the Bureau of Labor Statistics after baselessly claiming she rigged July’s employment report. At present, we’ll study what meaning for our economic system and our democracy.
Chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl begins us off.
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JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was a double dose of unhealthy financial information for President Trump on Friday because the market reacted to his newest tariffs and the grim new jobs report displaying the unemployment price up and new jobs down.
The inventory market tumbled. The Dow shedding 2.9 p.c on the week. Its worst weekly efficiency since early April when Trump first introduced his liberation day commerce struggle.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (April 2, 2025): My fellow Individuals, that is liberation day.
KARL (voice over): The president’s response to the unhealthy financial information, first, shoot the messenger. He fired the particular person chargeable for compiling the information, the chair of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Erika McEntarfer.
KARL: Mr. President, why did you hearth the top of the Bureau of Labor Statistics?
TRUMP: As a result of I believe her numbers have been flawed, similar to I assumed her numbers have been flawed earlier than the election. Days earlier than the election.
KARL (voice over): With out offering any proof, Trump accused McEntarfer of fudging the numbers to make him look unhealthy. Additionally insisting, once more with no proof, that she had rigged job knowledge forward of final yr’s election to assist Kamala Harris. In truth, the ultimate jobs report earlier than the election did not assist Harris in any respect. It was even worse than this week’s report.
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, ALLIANZ CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER: There wasn’t a lot proof that they’re politically pushed all this. It is simply the character of the train.
KARL (voice over): The Bureau of Labor Statistics is non-partisan. It compiles financial knowledge that has been utilized by economists, traders and lecturers for greater than a century. As for the newly fired McEntarfer, she was confirmed by the Senate in January of 2024 in an overwhelmingly bipartisan vote of 86 to eight. In truth, then Senator J.D. Vance voted for her.
William Seaside, who was appointed by Trump to function BLS commissioner throughout his first time period, mentioned the firing, quote, “units a harmful precedent and undermining the statistical mission of the bureau,” whereas calling McEntarfer, quote, “a really high quality analyst and colleague.”
At the very least one Republican senator advised Trump’s transfer was, quote, “impetuous.”
SEN. CYNTHIA LUMMIS (R-WY): It is not the statistician’s fault if the numbers are correct and that they’re not what the president had hoped for.
KARL (voice over): Along with capturing the messenger, the president is pointing fingers, placing the blame for financial turbulence on Jerome Powell. He appointed Powell because the Federal Reserve chairman in 2017. However this week, he known as him a, quote, “suborn moron” for failing to chop rates of interest.
All of this comes because the president introduced a brand new wave of tariffs set to enter impact this Thursday. This new spherical raises taxes on imported merchandise from practically 70 nations. Many economists are warning the impression of the sooner tariffs is now simply being felt, and that customers are going to see greater costs.
NATASHA SARIN, YALE BUDGET LAB PRESIDENT & CO-FOUNDER: Attire costs are going up by some 35 p.c because of these tariffs. And laptop costs are going to go up by some 20 p.c.
KARL (voice over): However Trump’s tariffs are actually dealing with a severe authorized problem. A federal appeals court docket elevating questions on whether or not the president has the authority to impose throughout the board tariffs with out congressional approval.
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KARL (on digital camera): Earlier commerce offers together with NAFTA and the U.S./Mexico/Canada settlement that Trump negotiated throughout his first time period did not go into impact till they have been permitted by Congress. If Trump loses in court docket, it might up finish most of his new tariffs and in addition the assorted commerce offers that he has negotiated over the past a number of weeks.
George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Jonathan Karl, thanks.
After the president fired the top of the BLS on Friday, we invited the White Home to supply a visitor to reply. They declined.
However we’re joined now by former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers.
Larry, thanks for becoming a member of us this morning.
I suppose this firing of the BLS commissioner goes within the class of surprising however not shocking.
LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: Sure, I imply, that is approach past something that Richard Nixon ever did. I am shocked that different officers haven’t responded by resigning themselves as passed off when Richard Nixon fired individuals lawlessly.
This can be a preposterous cost. These numbers are put collectively by groups of actually tons of of individuals following detailed procedures which are in manuals. There is no conceivable approach that the top of the BLS might have manipulated this quantity. The numbers are in keeping with what we’re seeing from every kind of personal sector sources.
That is the stuff of democracies giving method to authoritarianism. It — firing statisticians goes with threatening the heads of newspapers. It goes with launching assaults on universities. It goes with launching assaults on legislation corporations that defend shoppers that the elected boss finds uncongenial. That is actually scary stuff. And it will possibly hardly be shocking that when the rule of legislation is a bit in query, that there is a large uncertainty premium within the markets that’s working to each make their be much less funding, which slows the economic system down, and in addition means there’s much less provide so that there is extra inflationary strain.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Including to that uncertainty is the president’s marketing campaign in opposition to Jerome Powell, the top of the Federal Reserve, saying he’s been a moron, I believe was the phrase the president used for not reducing rates of interest up to now. What is the impression of that?
SUMMERS: Look, I believe that this type of political Fed bashing is a idiot’s recreation. The Fed would not hear. So, short-term rates of interest aren’t going to be totally different due to it. The market does hear. So, longer-term rates of interest are going to be greater, which goes to make it dearer to purchase a home. That is hurting the economic system, not serving to.
I believe the president understanding that. And what the president is doing is recognizing that for every kind of causes, of which his insurance policies are crucial ones, the economic system is at quite a lot of danger. And he’s trying to arrange a scapegoat if the economic system performs badly. That is what this attacking Chairman Powell is admittedly about. It is not likely about attempting to vary coverage. There is no likelihood that that is going to occur to any substantial diploma.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The roles report on Friday most likely does enhance the possibilities that the Fed will minimize rates of interest in — in September. What’s your tackle what that report advised us?
SUMMERS: I believe it advised us that the economic system is nearer to stall velocity than we thought that it was. The July quantity was weak. The large deal is the downwards revision for the 2 months earlier than that. And meaning there’s an actual chance that we’re in a stall velocity sort of economic system, which implies we might tip over into recession. That would not be my prediction proper now, however the danger is bigger definitely than it was earlier than. And it is a danger we do not must be taking, however it’s a danger that is made extra severe by these tariffs.
What your viewers ought to perceive is that these tariffs should not job creators. Whenever you increase tariffs on metal, for instance — yeah, there’s some individuals who work within the metal trade, however there are 50 occasions as many who work in industries like the car trade who are actually going to be a lot much less aggressive after they attempt to compete everywhere in the world.
So, it is a immense reward that we’re giving to our nation’s adversaries. By alienating our allies like Canada, like Europe, we’re making it a lot simpler for China to develop and flourish within the international economic system. And I simply do not perceive why we’d need to do this, particularly when what we’re getting out of it is a rise of greater than $2,000 within the payments that typical middle-class households are going to should pay.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You recognize, the markets have been fairly complacent concerning the tariffs up to now. Are we seeing their impression on this underlying jobs report?
SUMMERS: I believe that that is a component in it. I believe each the direct results of the tariffs, however most likely extra importantly, this sense of uncertainty that something might occur and who is aware of what enterprise goes to be attacked subsequent? Who is aware of what the principles are going to be?
In an atmosphere like that, what ought to a enterprise do? It ought to sit and it ought to wait. Wait when it comes to hiring individuals, wait when it comes to new manufacturing facility building. What’s conserving the economic system getting into important half just isn’t something really that is popping out of the president’s insurance policies.
It’s all the funding that we’re having in knowledge facilities which is popping out of the large progress that some corporations are making in know-how, and that is conserving the economic system going. However we’re taking unnecessary dangers right here — unnecessary dangers each on the unemployment aspect and, George, on the inflation aspect which makes it tougher for us to reply to any incipient recession menace when inflation is above goal and when Individuals say that price of residing is the most important situation that is dealing with them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Larry Summers, thanks in your time this morning.
SUMMERS: Thank —
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now to the escalating starvation disaster in Gaza. Devastating scenes of Palestinians contained in the territory as protesters in Israel held mass demonstrations final night time calling for the discharge of hostages.
Chief overseas correspondent Ian Pannell stories from Tel Aviv and contained in the Gaza Strip.
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IAN PANNELL, ABC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This week, desperation and devastation in Gaza, starvation and hunger ravaging the war-torn strip with little purpose to consider the top of the struggle is close to. The U.N. this week saying widespread hunger, malnutrition and illness are driving an increase in hunger-related deaths.
Zanab Abu Halib (ph) dying from malnutrition this week at simply months outdated. Her physician saying she had no pre-existing medical situations when she was born.
Her mom saying, “If she had sufficient vitamin at 5 months, she would have been capable of sit up or develop. Nevertheless it hasn’t occurred.”
That is the second that we crossed from Israel into Gaza.
This week, we have been taken throughout the border into Gaza, the place large stockpiles of important meals and medication await supply.
There are actually mountains and mountains of assist ready right here to be delivered to the determined individuals of Gaza. Right here you have got sacks of fortified flour, important provides to make bread. And but, in accordance with the U.N. and nearly each different assist company, only a mile or so down this highway, persons are ravenous to demise.
The IDF telling us assist businesses aren’t distributing assist quick sufficient.
You hear what they are saying. What’s coming in proper now, that is from the top of the U.N., is a trickle. And what’s wanted is a flood.
LT. COL. NADAV SHOSHANI, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESPERSON: Properly, I am going to inform you this, as we’re talking, there are vehicles ready in Gaza after Israeli inspection, and all of the U.N. must do is decide them up and cease speaking.
PANNELL: However in an announcement to ABC Information, the U.N. saying their drivers are navigating air strikes, broken roads, and felony gangs. And the Israeli authorities must grant them the situations to ship assist safely and successfully.
Because the humanitarian disaster continues to unfold, U.S. particular envoy Steve Witkoff within the area, visiting a kind of controversial U.S.-backed assist websites in Gaza which have beenplagued by chaos, violence and demise, as President Trump goals to develop a plan to mitigate the disaster.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did. I spoke to Steve Witkoff. He had an ideal assembly with lots of people. He had a gathering on getting the individuals fed. And that is what we would like.
PANNELL (voice over): On Saturday, Witkoff in Israel assembly with households of the hostages, telling them, we’ve a plan to finish the struggle and produce everybody house. Hamas releasing this harrowing video of hostage Evyatar David, trying painfully emaciated. His household agreeing for us to point out it.
Evyatar’s brother, Ilay, talking at a mass rally to deliver the hostages house.
ILAY DAVID, BROTHER OF EVYATAR DAVID: They’re on absolutely the brink of demise. Of their present, unimaginable situation, they could have solely days left to stay.
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PANNELL (on digital camera): Properly, ache for the households of the hostage, but additionally struggling inside Gaza. The Hamas-run well being ministry saying that there have been six new deaths on account of famine and malnutrition, bringing the entire lifeless to not less than 175 individuals, together with 93 kids.
And, George, I can inform you, while you see that mountains of assist, it is surprising to know that kids are dying from starvation not distant.
George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Ian, what will we find out about this plan that Steve Witkoff, the president’s envoy, was speaking about to the hostages households, that he has a plan to deliver all of them house?
PANNELL: Properly, attention-grabbing. We managed to acquire audio of that assembly between Steve Witkoff and the hostage households. He says that Hamas have agreed to demilitarize. Now, that may be large if that is the case. Their Public statements definitely recommend they have not.
He additionally mentioned, we’re very, very near an answer to the top of this struggle. However the satan’s within the element. How are you going to do this when even these partial offers which have been negotiated prior to now appear not possible proper now? Additionally saying he’s going to deliver all hostages house directly.
Properly, once more, over the past couple of months, it has been not possible even to deliver them house in tranches. So, it is a very formidable plan. He appears assured. That is what he’s telling the households, what he’s saying publicly.
I’ve requested Israeli sources concerning the negotiations. They do not need to discuss it in the mean time. And I believe it is also uncertain whether or not or not the Netanyahu authorities desires an finish to the struggle as soon as the hostages are over or to proceed and end the job.
George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Ian Pannell, thanks.
Let’s usher in now the top of — the USA CEO of Medical doctors With out Borders, Avril Benoit.
Avril, thanks for becoming a member of us this morning.
You might have groups all through the area. What are you able to inform us concerning the humanitarian disaster proper now?
AVRIL BENOIT, USA CEO, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: Individuals are ravenous. Individuals are determined. The sufferers that we’re seeing are malnourished. We now have seen girls ship prematurely. The newborns are in danger as a result of moms do not have sufficient vitamin themselves to breastfeed. Even untimely infants at a lot greater numbers than you’d usually see.
We’re additionally seeing individuals coming in with all of the catastrophic accidents that you’d count on in an open zone of air strikes and persevering with hostilities. They’re coming in with these trauma accidents, third-degree burns to their whole our bodies, kids with their faces blown off, all — all the most important orthopedic circumstances, the trauma. And their our bodies should not robust sufficient to even battle, to — to have the ability to stand up to the chance of an infection. They’re — they’re not recovering correctly. And that is — that’s exacerbating the issue within the well being amenities as a result of, after all, you’d need individuals to have all the possibilities on the earth to have the ability to overcome their accidents, to discharge them, to make room for others. And so, as a consequence, the — the hospital infrastructure, which Israel has largely destroyed, with the clinics and different outpatient amenities that we’ve and with the remainder of the humanitarian organizations which are attempting to help the medical wants in Gaza, we’re utterly overwhelmed and hunger is making issues all that rather more catastrophic.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, what are the steps that want be — that must be taken?
BENOIT: Properly, I’d concur with all the specialists who would say, we have to flood the zone with as a lot meals as doable. The issue with the GHF is, after all, it’s unsafe. It’s an inefficient method to ship assist. Individuals should cross very unsafe zones to succeed in these areas which are managed by the IDF and navy contractors from the U.S. After which there are inadequate portions. You find yourself in — in our amenities which are close to a few of these GHF distribution websites within the south, we at all times have a number of accidents and deaths as a consequence of each single supply.
And the accidents should not solely individuals being shot as they’re leaving the zone with their luggage of flour, however it’s additionally from the trampling that occurs, the accidents that occur when persons are — are crushing and leaping over one another due to all of the gunshots in opposition to unarmed civilians who’re simply attempting to outlive with a little bit of meals assist.
And the issue with the air drops, after all, is that it is extremely costly. You do not management what’s occurring on the bottom, who actually receives the help. It additionally has created extraordinarily insecure situations on the bottom. And you may’t even drop that a lot. So every one in every of these very spectacular visible shows of the parachutes touchdown on the bottom is admittedly the equal of some vehicles.
What we want is to flood the zone, get all these vehicles with the permissions to go in. Clearly, a ceasefire, an actual everlasting, lasting ceasefire will make it secure sufficient for the humanitarian organizations to have the ability to ship the help to individuals in Gaza who desperately want it. The scenario for the hostages is completely horrific as properly. If no meals assist is coming in, everyone seems to be in danger. Even assist staff are in danger. So while you discuss, you recognize, my very own colleagues who’re consuming each second day and scrounging round for meals, you’ll be able to think about that everybody is.
So that is — that is a part of the issue is that the help coming in is managed by Israel. And that’s the reason on this genocide, we glance to Israel to have an strategy that’s humanitarian. And naturally, for the U.S. to again what Israel is doing makes the U.S. complicit as properly. It is simply an apparent connecting of the dots. So we very a lot hope for everybody’s sake, all of the civilians inside Gaza, together with hostages, however after all all the individuals, the households, the kids, that there is an finish to this with an actual, lasting ceasefire, as a result of for positive this can not final lengthy.
Even the U.N. was estimating as we speak that a million girls and ladies are vulnerable to hunger proper now. And naturally, as the times go by, with an escalating, mounting numbers of malnutrition circumstances, it turns into that rather more crucial for us to flood the zone with as a lot meals and assist as doable. To do this, to get these vehicles into the locations the place individuals want it and in order that they will attain it with out risking their lives, we want for the preventing to cease. We’d like that ceasefire desperately proper now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Avril Benoit, thanks.
Up subsequent, an ABC Information investigation into how Individuals in majority non-white neighborhoods are dealing with greater property tax payments. We’re again in two minutes.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Again now with an ABC Information investigation about Individuals dealing with property tax payments which are disproportionally excessive. A brand new evaluation by our ABC Owned Tv Stations knowledge group exhibits that taking place to owners in majority non-white neighborhoods. It is known as highballed tax assessments.
And as our senior political correspondent Rachel Scott stories, excessive taxes can go away owners homeless.
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BONITA ANDERSON, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: That is the place we used to assemble to deliver the household collectively.
RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 70-year-old Bonita Anderson, this Baltimore home turned a secure haven. A spot that her 5 kids and eight grandchildren might name their very own.
However a most cancers analysis in 2020 modified every part.
ANDERSON: Once I began feeling higher, that is after I received the mail.
SCOTT: Then it was a letter from the town of Baltimore, letting her know she owed about $5,000 in again taxes from the final yr.
ANDERSON: That is what I paid. However they — they are saying they utilized that to different taxes — tax years versus making use of it to the yr that it was for.
SCOTT: By 2022, the town of Baltimore put a lien on Bonita’s home that was then auctioned off to the best bidder.
Take me again to that second while you realized that you’d be shedding your private home.
ANDERSON: I sat down. I mentioned, “Oh my God, I am 70 years outdated and I am homeless.”
SCOTT: Bonita is one in every of many throughout the nation who discovered herself highballed, dealing with disproportionately excessive property tax payments and in the end shedding her house at a authorities sale.
LAWRENCE LEVY, EXECUTIVE DEAN, HOEKSTRA UNIVERSITY NATIONAL CENTER FOR SUBURBAN STUDIES: If you cannot afford to pay your property taxes and you retain lacking your funds, authorities goes to public sale your property off for again taxes.
SCOTT: Property taxes are primarily based on an evaluation, the federal government’s greatest guess of how a lot a house is value.
Take Bonita’s outdated neighborhood for example, the place 97 p.c of residents are Black and the everyday tax invoice is round $3,800. A number of miles away within the majority white Baltimore neighborhood of Cross Nation, owners are inclined to pay decrease taxes, however their properties are literally value 50 p.c extra.
LEVY: In suburbia, the place you have got a excessive stage of segregation, the people who find themselves being taxed unfairly primarily based on not precisely capturing the worth of their house are individuals of shade.
SCOTT: In Baltimore, the place Bonita lives, 92 p.c of properties listed at tax gross sales from 2019 by 2023 have been in majority non-white neighborhoods.
And an evaluation ABC Information and its personal station’s knowledge journalism group discovered that it is a nationwide sample, inflicting 1000’s of individuals in communities like Bonita’s to lose their properties every year.
We discovered on common, individuals in these neighborhoods pay disproportionately excessive property taxes in comparison with these in majority white neighborhoods, at occasions even in the identical county.
It is a story our colleagues heard throughout the nation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We’re like up the creek, with nowhere to go, no assist, nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Simply preserve praying and asking the Lord to simply preserve me afloat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the complete block and full neighborhood that that is occurring to.
SCOTT: What do you like most about residing in Baltimore?
ANDERSON: That is the place my household is.
SCOTT: Bonita, now residing together with her daughter, joined a lawsuit claiming the town of Baltimore broke federal legislation by promoting her home to a non-public firm for pennies on the greenback. The town has defended its actions in court docket, saying it notified Bonita as required, including the town didn’t revenue from the sale.
LEE OGBURN, BONITA ANDERSON’S LAWYER: This works for the federal government as a result of it sells the liens promptly, and it really works for the tax sale purchasers.
SCOTT: In 2023, the U.S. Supreme Courtroom dominated that native governments couldn’t revenue from tax gross sales. As an alternative, the court docket dominated that owners have a constitutional proper to any funds past taxes and penalties they owe.
Many states throughout the nation have just lately modified their legal guidelines in mild of that Supreme Courtroom choice. Some municipalities even transcend what the court docket required, taking additional steps to maintain weak owners of their properties, like requiring in-person notifications earlier than sale or providing fee plans to redeem a house after it has been offered.
LEVY: The federal reply to decrease native property taxes is extra funding for native providers. They want extra assist from Congress and the White Home.
SCOTT: Because the Trump administration has slashed the federal price range, native governments must make up the distinction to supply the identical providers. Consultants say they’ll possible rely extra on property taxes, which in flip might imply extra conditions like Bonita’s, the place owners in majority non-white neighborhoods too usually pay greater than their fair proportion.
You got that house with desires of this concept of passing it on era to era.
ANDERSON: Mm-hmm.
SCOTT: What occurred to that dream now?
ANDERSON: It died.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Because of Rachel Scott. You may see her full report, “Highballed” Monday night time on ABC Information Stay Prime. And we’ll be proper again with former Legal professional Basic Eric Holder on the battle over redistricting.
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REP. LLOYD DOGGETT, (D-TX): Texas map, it’s a Trump map. It was not requested by any Republican or any Democrat in Texas; it was imposed by President Trump who has a stranglehold on Congress and the one query right here is whether or not he additionally has a stranglehold on this Texas legislature.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Texas Republicans superior a plan to redraw their congressional maps on Saturday, attempting to shift 5 seats to the GOP earlier than the midterms. The uncommon transfer to redraw the map for the second time in a decade has sparked an outcry from Democrats throughout the nation, who are actually threatening to reply in type. Let’s discuss that now with Eric Holder, Chair of the Nationwide Democratic Redistricting Committee, Former Legal professional Basic beneath President Obama.
Thanks for becoming a member of us this morning. Mr. Holder. You have been main an effort to cease gerrymandering. Now, you say it is time to battle hearth with hearth. Why the turnaround?
ERIC HOLDER, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE CHAIR & FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Properly, I believe we’ve to know that the character of the menace that has been put upon the nation by what they’re attempting to do in Texas has actually elevated the hazard to our democracy. And because of that, we have got to do issues that maybe prior to now I’d not have supported.
That is an authoritarian transfer by the White Home to attempt to guarantee that they will rig the election, the midterm elections in 2026. And so, I believe {that a} Democratic response that’s accountable, that’s responsive, and that’s short-term, is suitable given these — given these info.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You noticed what Karl Rove, the previous Republican strategist has mentioned. He mentioned, we have at all times had partisan redistricting, thus it ever was, thus it ever can be. How is that this totally different?
HOLDER: Properly, you recognize, just because that is one thing that has stricken the nation for, you recognize, an prolonged time period doesn’t imply that it’s proper. What we’re seeing now’s an try by the White Home to insulate itself from any sort of congressional scrutiny, any sort of congressional oversight, to guarantee that Donald Trump stays the authoritarian determine that he has turn into. We now have a compliant Congress, and he desires to make sure that given the truth that they handed this invoice that’s unpopular, that takes well being care away from individuals, that provides tax breaks to billionaires, and it places in danger the Republican majority, he desires to make sure that he continues to have that compliant Republican Home of Representatives. And that, I believe, is one thing that we have to have in mind.
Our democracy is threatened. Our democracy is admittedly threatened by what the Republicans are proposing to do in Texas proper now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there any method to cease it?
HOLDER: Properly, I believe there are a variety of the way through which we are able to attempt to cease it. Should you take a look at the individuals who have testified on the hearings, 100 to at least one individuals have testified in opposition to it. Editorial boards within the media in Texas have opined in opposition to it. The polling exhibits that the individuals in Texas are, in reality, in opposition to it. So, I believe that is one of many methods through which you attempt to cease it from really occurring.
After which, in the event that they put in place this actually unbelievable gerrymandering — midcycle gerrymandering, we’ve the capability to deliver litigation. And we already have been in litigation in opposition to the state of Texas for the gerrymandering that they did in 2020. This actually exacerbates that which they’ve already carried out and strengthens the case that we’ve introduced.
So, there are mechanisms that we are able to attempt to use. And along with that, I believe that accountable Democrats in different states should have in mind the menace to our democracy, the necessity to protect our democracy so we are able to in the end attempt to heal it. And I’d hope that they’ll take steps which are, once more, as I mentioned, short-term however accountable.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we’re seeing discuss that in California. We’re seeing discuss that in New York as properly. However these makes an attempt are extra lengthy photographs, aren’t they?
HOLDER: Properly, you recognize, they’re — it should rely upon the state. However I believe one factor’s attention-grabbing. You recognize, what they’re attempting to do in Texas is just impose a brand new map on — an unpopular new map on the individuals of — of Texas. To do it in California, you really should go to the individuals and ask them to droop that which they’ve in place, which is a extremely well-functioning, unbiased redistricting committee. So, the individuals may have a voice in what California does. The individuals do not need a voice, a significant voice it seems, up to now in Texas.
STEPHANOPOULOS: On one other matter, we’ve additionally seen President Trump accuse the president you served, President Obama, of treason. Suggests he was responsible of felony acts. It seems that there are investigations now of a number of former workers who labored beneath the Obama administration. What’s your response to that?
HOLDER: Properly, it is a weaponization of the Justice Division and legislation enforcement capacities of the federal authorities. It’s additionally an try and deflect consideration from that which actually afflicts the president and his administration proper now, which is the discharge of the Epstein recordsdata. He’s pointing at an entire bunch of various issues. You recognize, let’s accuse President Obama of treason. Let’s change the identify of the, you recognize, of the Washington soccer group. There’s all kinds of issues he’s attempting to get individuals to look over there versus confronting that which is in entrance of the American individuals proper now, which is the discharge of the Epstein recordsdata.
Nevertheless it additionally goes again to this redistricting factor. You recognize, if in case you have a United States Home of Representatives that is still compliant to do this which the president desires to do, no matter what their obligations are, you find yourself with what we noticed there, the place a bipartisan a part of the Home of Representatives needed to vote to launch the Epstein recordsdata. And what did the compliant management of the Home do? They went into recess so {that a} vote might by no means be — occur. That’s what they’re attempting to do by the Texas — by the Texas gerrymandering.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, the — so, lastly, you’d launch the recordsdata for those who have been legal professional common proper now?
HOLDER: Sure. I imply, have in mind, you recognize, the privateness curiosity of varied individuals, definitely of the victims uppermost. However there’s investigative materials that may definitely be launched, that needs to be launched. The main focus should not be on grand jury materials as a result of there are an entire bunch of issues with respect to the discharge of grand jury materials. However with regard to investigative recordsdata which are within the possession of the Justice Division and the FBI, these supplies needs to be launched.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Eric Holder, thanks in your time this morning.
Donna Brazile and Chris Christie are up subsequent.
We’ll be proper again.
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RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You mentioned that Jeffrey Epstein stole individuals from Mar-a-Lago. On the time, do you know why he was taking these younger girls, together with Virginia who was simply 16 on the time?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I didn’t know. I imply, I’d — I’d determine it was ABC faux information that may ask that query. One of many worst.
However no, I do not know actually why. However I mentioned if he is taken anyone from Mar-a-Lago, he is hiring or no matter he is doing, I did not prefer it, and we threw him out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: The president remains to be dealing with questions concerning the Epstein recordsdata.
Let’s discuss it with our political specialists, Donna Brazile and Chris Christie.
And, Chris, we simply heard Eric Holder speaking about it as properly. Congress has gone into recess to attempt to keep away from coping with this situation. Is it going to go away?
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No. And the rationale it isn’t going to go away is as a result of it isn’t a Democrat-driven situation. It is a — it is a MAGA-driven situation. And that is why it will not go away.
I believe the president might very properly deflect if Democrats have been the one ones speaking about this. However in reality, his base is speaking way more about it than he’s.
And the opposite drawback, too, George, is that this has now leaked into common tradition. You recognize, you noticed the jokes concerning the president on the ESPYs. You noticed it on “South Park”. And now, you even received this web site Kalshi that does futures buying and selling the place you’ll be able to wager on what number of occasions Donald Trump goes to be within the Epstein recordsdata.
You recognize, when that sort of stuff is occurring, it is now left, as you recognize, when it leaves the White Home briefing room and goes into common tradition, the White Home briefing room cannot management it.
DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: George, look, that is one story that I’d relatively not discuss. And I used to be displaying Chris within the inexperienced room, June of 2022, I’m studying Ms. Maxwell’s sentencing memorandum as a result of I am attempting to determine why within the heck did they ship her from a minimal safety to a low safety facility? They may have despatched her all the way down to Alcatraz, Alcatraz Alligator alley 350 miles away. That is the place she belongs.
For what she was sentenced, trafficking in minors, grooming minors, there isn’t any approach she needs to be given leniency. It’s an insult to the victims, and there isn’t any purpose why Donald Trump ought to even attempt to dangle a pardon in entrance of her.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Virginia Giuffre’s household just isn’t blissful about it. After all, it got here after Ms. Maxwell met with the president’s former private legal professional, now the deputy legal professional common.
CHRISTIE: Yeah, look, extraordinary interview given what we all know.
Initially, the deputy legal professional common by no means interviews anyone. Okay? That is carried out by line help, not by the deputy legal professional common of the USA who’s presupposed to be the chief working officer of the Justice Division.
He additionally did not deliver, so far as it has been reported, any brokers with him to take notes. You at all times have one or two brokers with you while you’re doing an interview, so there are different goal individuals taking notes, so as to evaluate about what was mentioned. We do not know if the if the interview was taped.
Then you definately add to it the transfer to the higher jail. Now, that’s carried out while you’re attempting to get somebody to cooperate. You are attempting to say, “Look how good we might be to you. You did not like the place you have been earlier than. Look how good — a lot nicer these lodging are.”
These should not issues which are carried out by chance, George. These are issues which are carried out on function. I believe everybody has to start out questioning about how goal is regardless of the Justice Division is doing, and is it actually geared in the direction of attempting to get her to offer testimony that the president would discover favorable to him.
BRAZILE: Once more, I’m going again to this notion, why are we being lenient? Why is the federal government giving her higher digs? OK? I imply, who is aware of what — she received a dormitory fashion on, possibly a TV, possibly two towels. I do not care. All I do know is that the victims deserve some sort of respect.
The president can be in bother as a result of he retains altering the story. He mentioned that he broke up or pushed away Epstein after a nasty actual property deal. And now, we hear over the past week that Jeffrey Epstein stole — clearly? Actually? Stole one in every of his ladies from the spa. President Trump is chargeable for this mess and the one approach he’ll get out of it’s if the White Home and others, Justice Division, let all of it — let all of it come out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We’ll see if it occurs when the Congress comes again. Chris, let’s change, the Employment Report that got here out on Friday, some weak jobs numbers proper there. The President’s motion? Hearth the messenger.
(LAUGH)
CHRISTIE: Look, that is sort of a, one thing that I have been speaking about since 2018. When he will get information he would not like, he wants somebody in charge as a result of he will not take the accountability himself, and that is the motion of a petulant youngster. Like, you give me unhealthy information, I hearth the messenger. Anyone who is aware of how — and look, as governors, we have been very centered on this knowledge as properly, because it utilized to our particular person state, as a result of these numbers mattered for a way individuals perceived the way you have been doing on the economic system.
So, we all know how necessary they’re. So we used to take a look at it very rigorously. It appears to me, from every part I realized over my eight years as governor, that it might be nearly not possible for anybody to attempt to rig these numbers as a result of so many individuals are concerned in placing them collectively. And in the long run, in the case of the — to the Director of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the lady who was fired, when that occurs, all she’s doing is being a conduit of the knowledge.
She will’t return in by —
STEPHANOPOULOS: Proper.
CHRISTIE: — and begin lining — line iteming it round. So, it is irresponsible from a place of info, however it additionally exhibits you the way in which he manages.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Numbers do present a slowdown.
BRAZILE: Completely. A yr in the past, 168,000 jobs a month. And over the past couple of months, we have — shedding jobs. Manufacturing jobs, the president promised, I watched it on April 2nd, Liberation Day, the golden period, and we’re shedding manufacturing jobs. We’re shedding jobs in nearly each sector however — however healthcare and academia.
President Trump’s economic system is harmful for America. It is harmful for America on the earth and it is also harmful for America’s again house. I’ve to inform you, I went to the grocery retailer and now, I am an enormous shopper.
CHRISTIE: You’re.
BRAZILE: Oh, and look, I needed to go to a few shops. I do not need to point out them, however sure, let me do it. Walmart is dear. Greenback Basic, Greenback Tree is now not $1. It is $1.75, even $5. I needed to go to 5 under to get a backpack and a few faculty provide. It’s unhealthy out right here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We solely have about 30 seconds left.
CHRISTIE: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: However this most likely does imply the president’s going to get his rate of interest minimize in September?
CHRISTIE: Yeah, as a result of the economic system is slowing. Look, this is the issue. There’s some issues that the president’s carried out with the economic system that I — that I agree with. However — however the reality of the matter is these tariffs are the issue. Nobody, you will by no means hear any accountable economist say, imposing tariffs grows an economic system, hastens an economic system. It would not.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all we’ve time for as we speak. Up subsequent, Martha Raddatz with the creator of a brand new e book on the exceptional historical past of the atomic bomb. We’ll be proper again.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: This week marks 80 years for the reason that bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And as we speak the specter of nuclear conflicts nonetheless persists, underscored by latest tensions with Iran and Russia.
Chief international affairs and anchor Martha Raddatz sat down with historian Garrett Graff, creator of the brand new e book, “The Satan Reached In the direction of the Sky: An Oral Historical past of the Making and Unleashing of the Atomic Bomb.” They mentioned the years of secretive work that ended World Struggle II and introduced the daybreak of the nuclear age.
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MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They have been the deadliest single assaults in historical past. 80 years in the past this week, the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the fruits of an audacious years-long prime secret authorities program known as “The Manhattan Venture.”
GARRETT GRAFF, AUTHOR, “THE DEVIL REACHED TOWARDS THE SKY”: We now have now successfully each first-person reminiscence we are going to ever have of those occasions.
RADDATZ: Creator Garrett Graff’s new oral historical past e book is a compilation of tons of of interviews, diaries and paperwork from the U.S., Europe and Japan, together with first-person accounts from some 500 witnesses to the occasions.
Individuals like Hideko Tamura Snider, who was solely 10 years outdated when the nuclear bomb fell on her house metropolis, Hiroshima. She wrote, “It was darkish throughout me as if the solar itself had disappeared and the exploding earth raged within the thick black air and swirling wind.”
Nevertheless it was not the struggle with Japan that initially spurred the challenge. It was Nazi Germany.
CILLIAN MURPHY, ACTOR, “OPPENHEIMER”: We’re in a race in opposition to the Nazis. And I do know what it means if the Nazis have a bomb.
RADDATZ: “Oppenheimer,” the 2023 blockbuster and Oscar-winning Finest Image advised the story of the physicist at Los Alamos labs, however that was simply a part of the huge challenge.
GRAFF: The kind of secret of “The Manhattan Venture” is in these cities that we construct in Hanford, Washington, and Oakridge, Tennessee, you recognize, labeled amenities that make use of 100,000 individuals. I imply, cities that didn’t exist at first of the struggle the place we’re constructing, you recognize, 1000’s of properties a month and constructing factories, you recognize, the scale of a number of soccer fields.
RADDATZ: A lot of these staff in these hidden cities had no concept they have been refining plutonium and uranium, the weather wanted for an atomic bomb.
GRAFF: Most of these staff realized the phrase uranium for the primary time on the day that Harry Truman declares the existence of “The Manhattan Venture.”
RADDATZ: Those that did know the aim of the challenge grappled with the way it might change the world.
Did they consider the harmful energy on the time?
GRAFF: There’s one faction of the scientists, quite a lot of the refugees from Europe, they’re disenchanted that the bomb comes too late, after which they’ve this response of claiming, you recognize, hey, we did not join this challenge to bomb Japan. You recognize, we needed to cease Hitler. Hitler has been stopped. Let’s not use this.
For among the scientists on the challenge, they will identify the individuals whose lives are saved as a result of the bomb is dropped.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Scientists like Commander Norris Bradbury who mentioned, “Some individuals declare to have questioned on the time about the way forward for mankind. I did not. We have been at struggle and the rattling factor labored.”
After the success of the primary check, the U.S. navy readied the B-29 Superfortress bombers, and on August sixth, 1945, the Enola Homosexual took to the skies and altered the course of historical past.
HARRY S. TRUMAN, (D) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A short while in the past, an American airplane dropped one bomb on Hiroshima and destroyed its usefulness to the enemy.
GRAFF: This is a gigantic triumph and the tragedy that’s unfolding on the similar time in Hiroshima. I imply, the crew of the Enola Homosexual, they land again on Tinian after their mission; they actually have medals pinned to their chest. After which, they go off to a barbecue get together to have fun this monumental achievement of dropping the bomb, at the same time as Hiroshima is caught on this firestorm, this hearth hurricane that’s — that the bomb has unleashed behind them.
RADDATZ (voice-over): However the true horrors of what occurred in Hiroshima and Nagasaki took practically a yr to succeed in the U.S.
GRAFF: Studying the testimonies of the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are — they’re probably the most searing experiences. You come to know how nuclear weapons should not like some other weapon within the human arsenal, that they’re community- and civilization-destroying weapons.
As these remaining survivors, the Hibakusha or the bomb affected individuals of Hiroshima and Nagasaki go, I believe it is now as much as us and our era and our time to hold ahead the mission that they’ve devoted their lives to, which is to make sure that they’re the ultimate victims in human civilization of a nuclear weapon.
RADDATZ (voice-over): A stark warning for a menace that is still very a lot a actuality. For “This Week,” Martha Raddatz, ABC Information, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Because of Martha and Garrett. “The Satan Reached Towards the Sky” can be out on Tuesday. And we’ll be proper again.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: That’s all for us as we speak. Thanks for sharing a part of your Sunday with us. Try “World Information Tonight” and I am going to see you tomorrow on GMA.
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